From Research to Reality - AI's Role in Healthcare

>> Gelareh: Got an idea that keeps you up at night or one that makes people say, hm, that will never work.

>> Dave: Perfect. That's what we talk about here on Innovation Fuel. So let's get that conversation started. Welcome back to Innovation Fuel. Hey guys, we're here. We've got exciting journey ahead of us today. We've got some really interesting things. We're talking about AI and AI in healthcare. But AI and healthcare, Gelareh has been around for a long period of time and only recently because of what we've been exposed to with generative AI, we're now seeing it. And you even actually had a personal experience with Nava?

>> Gelareh: Yes, AI is here for 40 years and data, is here for a long time. The problem is how we can use that one. So, for example, Nava and I went to the hospital and she had to do EEG. And I had some questions with the technicians about what's the age range of using EEG? Is a criteria, is related to gender, is related age or any races. You can say these things, except you don't have those data. And I was like, why you don't have that data means you are creating a lot of data, a lot of data right now just by looking at this EEG. No, we cannot use that data. I don't know how to use it either. So for me was like, oh my God, how's possible? Because that can help a lot of predictions about health of a patient. As you said, generative AI became more accessible for any individuals. But pure AR and AI by itself or data modeling, why is not incorporated in our healthcare?

>> Dave: Well, hey, AI is great for getting us our Amazon products, but it's not, hey, it still has some challenges and it has some challenges, regulatory challenges, some things around involvement the customer. Who is the customer, where does these things lie and how do we collect.

>> Gelareh: This information and data? Privacy.

>> Dave: And we look at the privacy and so I think we might have someone today that actually is wrestling with this today.

>> Gelareh: Yes, we have Dr. Meriam Abedi the founder of Aplicare. AI. She's here to explain her product and her journey from scientist to an entrepreneur.

>> Dave: Hello, Dr. Abedi Let's start at the very beginning before we get into AI and the business. What initially led you to explore the intersection of healthcare and artificial intelligence?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: From 2017 to 2021, I had the opportunity to do my postdoctoral research at the University of Montreal in Quebec. By the end of my postdoctoral research I got the idea to explore scientific entrepreneurship because I had this unique mix of expertise in informatics, AI and data analysis. Especially with time series data like continuous vital science. So during my postdoc I had the chance to work with doctors and web device company. But I wanted to take it a step further, see my research make a real world impact more. Not just writing papers and programs but truly supporting doctors and approving patient journeys by the end to turn my expertise into something that could create value. But here is the thing. I didn't have any business skill and I didn't know where to start.

>> Gelareh: I just want to know that what particle incidents or insight that highlighted that need for AI driven digital healthcare.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: First about my expertise because I got this expertise that combine AI and healthcare. Then it come from my personal experience because when I had this expertise in continuous data monitoring and the importance of continuously monitoring vital signs data the patient and from my personal experience my grandfather died with stroke and he had diabetes. But when I see that continuous monitoring can help even see these patterns and size before stroke happens because in general population are not aware about the signs and symptoms and wearable devices can help to detect these signs to be able to intervene before stroke happens.

>> Gelareh: And is your product is a new system or it's a whole new product or is already built up and something.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Is there having getting insights from continuous data is something that is emerging. I am using scientific approach so I am looking at paper what is going on? What is new technologies is still not implemented in health care really so it's still in research stage and it takes time to really in real world application. So it's really an emerging field.

>> Dave: One of the biggest insights you've discovered so far that have started to shape this perspective around AI how it can be effectively used in this, this sort of world.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: It's because I have this unique mix of expertise on AI, informatics and healthcare. So I was confident that I am able to develop a product, an AI system that can really have an impact on Patriot Journey and could help doctors.

>> Gelareh: During your research have you saw similar products while you're working with doctors?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Yes, very similar. Having this idea of wanting to explore continuous vital signs Data is an emerging opportunity and there is a lot of research about it. So we can predict death in ICU, we can predict hypoxemia, we can predict health outcome. So there is a lot of opportunity that we can explore and it really depend on the data and the healthcare.

>> Gelareh: Professional need but they are not incorporated in our healthcare system. And why is that?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Because the journey to commercialize AI in healthcare take time. We not need FDA approval. Even the data availability is a real challenge.

>> Gelareh: Because of this all the regulations that's a problem.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: I will just formulate about the data, electronic health record, collect data. But these data are not aimed to develop AI models. So they are often shaped more by workflow constraint than by actual medical need. So we face problems like missi ng and incomplete data issue with interoperability data not being collected consistently so that make the patient trajectory modeling available and the there is also ethical and privacy concerns. We had to navigate all these challenges while developing a solution that really feeds the active needs of the healthcare system.

>> Dave: So it's almost the balance of the UI and the UX. Like the UI mentioned, user integration of this element. Like the data is coming, the information. But how does it then apply to the scenario and those scenarios and how are we going to adopt those scenarios?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Definitely because right now that exists and having insights from data is something that is going to shape the future of health care. But the implementation really is implementing this kind of solution. Need to have this stakeholder all joined around the table to be able. So there is a data scientist, the AI expert, the healthcare professionals, the healthcare institution, the government. They need to be around the table to be able to develop this kind of solution.

>> Dave: So with that in mind, what are the challenges you face? Because that's a lot of pieces and a lot of pieces having to be on the same page.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: The first challenge is, was at the beginning of my entrepreneurship journey. I am a technical entrepreneur and I had a solution but I was still looking for the right problem to solve test minimum viable product and show that it truly addressed a real issue in a specific market. So my goal was to figure out where my solution could create value but understanding the value chain, not just pushing it onto the market. This was really a challenge as a technical founder and then come the issue of the question of the business model. So we need to understand existing business model of AI in healthcare companies specifically digital biomarker company to innovate in our business model. Also because in our approach we are co developing our solution with healthcare professional. We need their input and insight to ameliorate our AI system. I think this is the two big challenges. Problem solution fit and the business model of AI in healthcare.

>> Gelareh: So why you want to start a business, you had a great research idea, you tested your research in the lab. It works.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: I am a person that love challenges. I wanted to have unpacked. I am a technical person that develop programs. A researcher also that is behind its computer. So I wanted to go to see the world, to network, to see how I can make impact and have value through my expertise.

>> Gelareh: When you created your business Aplicare. AI which is a beautiful name. So how important has collaboration with clinicals and researcher been developing and refining this business?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: So we are in the early stage of development and it's really important to involve doctors in the early stage of development. Having their insights is really important to ameliorate the algorithm and having doctors involved early in our journey has been key. Understanding also the patient workflow, the value chain and mapping out the stakeholder has really shaped our, our approach. It's about ensuring we meet needs while also looking for ways to bring new solution to the table.

>> Gelareh: Again you're working with algorithm, right? So how this professional can help you to understand what market looks like and what type of product they actually need.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: So it's more about understanding the need and the gap. So how the actual workflow is going on and what value the AI solution will add to the doctor and the patient and how we will integrate it in the workflow. Our approach is not just pushing the product, it's really understanding the need, working together and then understanding how we will implement the solution in the actual workflow.

>> Dave: So again coming down to let's really dive into the problem, let's look at the problem, let's get the information from the problem and then let's map out solutions towards that element.

So when you're going through this Meriam, like one of the biggest things especially in AI is about cost. AI can be a really expensive development and implementation element. What have you discovered about balancing cost effectiveness while maintaining high quality outcomes that you need in order to deliver the right solution?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: So Applicare AI is in the early stage of development. So we are in the scientific validation step and going through the clinical validation with real world data. So I can say that Applicare AI is more a scientific company, a research company because our approach is really evidence based. So we want to align with the latest guidelines, best practice and quality standards for predictive model in healthcare to have from the beginning an AI system that align with this guidelines and that is baked with scientific research.

>> Gelareh: To my understanding is that you're trying to say that my value proposition is I am solving market needs by scientific approach. And I am offering the most accurate model regarding the data about the health of patients. And you can predict some outcomes of a patient like an incident death or about a stroke. But the problem you have is actually commercialize your product because right now we.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Are collaborating with doctors and we are following co development approach but they are not the ones that are going to buy our AI system. That has been one of our big challenges. So figuring out who is going to buy it and how it will fit into the doctor's workflow. Adding to that getting an AI system into healthcare takes time. Especially with the need for FDA approval as a medical device. It's all still pretty new and the guidelines are still evolving. So staying updated on those is super important in the, in this field. I also have this challenge to balance everything while raising capital to keep the business going, continue the development because we cannot commercialize it. Take almost five years to commercialize an AI system as a medical device. And just to add a personal note, I am also a mom with two kids. So that jangling act too. So between the business and motherhood.

>> Gelareh: Yeah, tell me about it.

>> Dave: So the core elements that we see here is that number one is that we have to balance this element out. Meaning that we're running towards getting accreditation or approval by the FDA and other elements out there. But we're also trying to figure out how to sync this into operation. Who's going to be the primary user, who's going to be the buyer of this software and how is it going to instinct into the doctor's flow elements. So there's a number of challenges. And then of course we're wrestling over here with this is new and the new piece is probably the challenge is how do you change the trajectory of these regulation parties that know this system over here and have no ideas of these new systems. And they're probably evolving as you're evolving.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: How we keep updated with evolving guidelines and all research based. So we need to be up to date to the sound guidelines. It's really having this awareness system of what is happening to be up to date and to be able to be agile. Also it's about our approach that we don't want just to buy a solution and push it to the market. We want a solution that is really answer the need and that will be integrated to the system. We didn't want to add another user interface, another mobile app, another web application. We wanted to integrate the system, the existing system, the existing workflow. But this existing system it's not ready to adopt AI solutions.

>> Gelareh: Just try to understand in terms of you be commercialized. You need to deal with regulatory body such as FDA. Right. First you get the FDA and then after you got the FDA now you have to wondering who's going to buy it.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Definitely. But if we had the FDA, it will be a competitive edge.

>> Gelareh: Absolutely. So you don't know if it's a government or it's a healthcare solutions we.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Have this stakeholder mapping but we need to try and to figure out how even approach them. Yes, it's a collective responsibility for me. We are working closely with various stakeholders so the doctors, the wearable device, the developer of centralized platforms and we answering real world needs. But it's not about just building something and selling it. For me I have this dream that applicator AI becomes a nonprofit because our approach is all about collaboration and then we want, we have this shared accountability with everyone involved with Adventure and we want to ensure that our innovation are accessible, ethical and focused on improving healthcare outcomes. so it's about building trust and working together to make a real impact. Just following a business model.

>> Dave: Miriam. Absolutely aspiring. Like it's a. I could see the passion, I see where you want to go and I see the opportunity but I also see all the different types of roadblocks that have been set up by past elements that are and how do we navigate these new elements into past structures that are past structures that may not work. Elements which we see.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Digital health is something new and it's about centralizing all the data in one platform, getting the data from electronic health records. It's also not just about AI. For example, sometimes the solution is just in data analysis. We don't need to have AI and the time to analyze the data. getting insight from it before developing a model take more time than developing the model itself. So I think it's the whole approach. It's not just pushing for using AI and it's the ultimate solution. No, I think it's about business intelligence, data analysis, doctors, expertise. We need all to work together to have this something that is working, that is helpful and that is that will have an impact. And the answer really need not just pushing AI for just for AI.

>> Gelareh: We are at the end of our podcast. We need you through a challenge that you are facing and you think that a student can help you. So you give us a challenge.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Digital biomarker company's business model. I'm lucky to be working with professor, Bruce Iber at University Canada West with these MBA students. So in developing the business strategy for applicator AI, we are exploring existing models and analyzing competitors and it has been such a valuable experience. What I really love is that we are losing collective intelligence to rethink and push by on traditional business model. So shaping APK's AI business model has definitely been a challenge, but a rewarding one.

>> Dave: I love it. Meriam, if people want to follow your work or collaborate with you or want more to learn more about Applicare AI, where should they reach you? How can they reach you?

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: so we have a website. It's Applicare AI.

>> Dave: Wonderful. Thank you again, Miriam for sharing this. all these discoveries and it's so interesting. It's clear that AI is an instant solution. We see some opportunities there, but there's some really cool things that are being uncovered in the healthcare and for listeners out there, if this conversation got you thinking about the power of AI, don't forget to subscribe to Innovation for Fuel and share this episode to anybody interested in the future of healthcare. And let's keep the conversation going. Thank you very much, Miriam.

>> Dr. Meriam Abedi: Thank you so much.

>> Gelareh: That's a wrap up for today's episode of Innovation Fuel. Keep those engines running, stay curious and fuel your mind with innovation. Until next time, I'm Gelareh Refarhotian with Dave signing off. Big thanks to our guests, our listeners, and of course, the dream team behind the scene, Thomas Reynoso. Making us fans, sound like pros. Jennifer Lee Gonzon Ensuring every note is pitch perfect. Dave, are we officially out of refuel for today?

>> Dave: Well, Gelareh, for today, yes. But we'll be back to refuel next time. Love this episode. Share it with someone who needs a little innovation in their lives. And remember, whether you discover opportunities or create them, just keep moving forward. See you next time on Innovation Fuel.

>> Gelareh: Big ideas don't grow by themselves.

>> Dave: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Share and let's fuel the next one together.

>> Gelareh: Innovation Fuel is produced by JPAD Creations. Find out more about the show at theinnovationfuel.